Do you applaud the efforts of these candidates? Do you think there is an authentic message here, or just campaign maneuvering?
Wednesday, August 18, 2010
"The Other Guys/Gals"
Do you applaud the efforts of these candidates? Do you think there is an authentic message here, or just campaign maneuvering?
15 comments:
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The more, the merrier Cal, too many incumbants will be acclaimed unless good people step forward, the people in the photograph are it.
ReplyDeleteI pray that apathy doesn't throw this city for another loop like last time, we are on life-support already, we are dieing by the decrees of a dysfunctional council.
Apathy is like a do not recusitate order, that we don't need. Voter's have to wake up, or all will be lost, again.
I regret not to being able to attend this event as I was out of the country. It is critical that the next council work together on behalf of Hamilton , and I also believe that it is important that councillors are able to collaborate in order to bring this city back to prosperity. I support the spirit of this event and I am committed to setting a new tone for the betterment of Hamilton and Hamiltonian’s.
ReplyDeleteKen Chartrand
Candidate for Ward 11
*VENT ALERT! VENT ALERT! VENT ALERT!*
ReplyDeleteGood Lord, what a lot of twaddle. Twaddle from the candidates...and twaddle from elsewhere. Twaddle when it comes to demonization, when it comes to simplification, when it comes to 'presenting solutions', for stereotyping incumbents, politicians in general, yadda, yadda, no-wonder-we're-in-this-mess yadda.
And talk about WHINING! (Not that there should be any surprise; people love to get angry, they love to shake their fist, they love to spew their righteous indignation. It's a bizarre spin-off of the 'entitlement' mindset. (It also reveals much about how much frustration people feel at their own existences. Ouch.)
First off, the real issue isn't 'term limits'. It's competency. So the notions that are put forward in this article are- Well, I won't spell it out, the mods will crucify me, but I'll think it really LOUDLY. My bet is that the people who see things this way don't have any managerial responsibilities or experience, otherwise they'd be replacing staff regularly...simply because they've been around long enough and it's time for a change, not because the people may or may not have been excelling at what they do.
Secondly, I listen to people carp, read their typed bleatings, usually of the 'Vote the bums out!' and I think to myself 'When it comes down to it, I'm willing to bet you have no idea how it all works. In other words, a 'qualified opinion' is something that doesn't apply. (Here's a hint: just because you go on about it, doesn't mean it's either factual or relevant.)
Finally, if you want to have a better local political system, if you sincerely want to 'change' things in Hamilton, don't look to a 'new crop' of councillors. There is no guarantee whatsoever that 'out with the old and in with the new' is going to provide you the result you crave. It might only just grant you some perverse feeling of power...but at what expense? If you truly want to see things 'better', then focus on the real solution: creating a value system shift where it comes to involvement of our citizenry, or as I've referred to it on my blog, 'the relationship of engagement'. In other words, voting isn't enough. People have to generate engagement with their councillors. So if you feel that casting your vote every four years and then hoping for/expecting the best to happen is the limit of your civic obligations...then you're always going to be moaning about what's unfolding at City Hall.
So. To me, the answer isn't to be found with new politicians. The answer can be found much closer to home.
Unless you really just love to whine.
*VENT ALERT OVER*
What a breath of fresh air these candidates are! Kudos to Liban and Bernard for showcasing, what looks like, a future of bright, unified, and dedicated councillors. What a concept!
ReplyDeleteThe article in The Spec really set the tone for the attainable dream of a prosperous Hamilton. I am confident that future begins with these engaged individuals.
My SC. I think your naive. Your the other extreme man. Wake up. These "councilors" have been clawing and scratching since this miserable term. Now its catchin up to them. I'm voting for one of the 8.
ReplyDeleteElvis P. out
Hey, its a publicity stunt. But publicity stunt is probably the only way to overcome 'complicity stunt' that incumbents use to stay in power - so i say good move! Keep going.
ReplyDeleteMyStoneyCreek, who said on his blog: "(I don't tend to open my mouth unless I feel I know what I'm talking about; the 'unqualified opinion', AKA 'talking for the sake of declaring oneself' is one of modern society's scourge-habits)", seems to be going against his own philosophy with his rather harsh "twaddle". I'd quibble with his notion that the problem is the competency of councilors instead of understanding that managerial competency is supposed to reside in the bureaucracy. The primary job of the councilor is to sit in honest judgment of the options identified by staff. What we have now is the unavoidable taint of money democracy, necessitated by the cost of getting elected, augmented later by greed. Therefore 'throwing the bums out' and/or term limits is a legitimate response, perhaps the only one. The expense is minuscule.
But I do agree with his call for a more engaged citizenry as being a crucial for fixing the system. Lately, i've been pounding the table in favour of Athenian Democracy which featured direct citizen voting, term limits and selection by lottery (see Wikipedia for more info). This idea disappeared perhaps due to practical considerations but I believe technology makes it possible in today's world.
Mr. P: I could take your comment seriously if you actually understood the difference between 'your' and 'you're', if you had a better grasp of sentence structure and clarity ("These "councilors" have been clawing and scratching since this miserable term." Since this miserable term what, exactly? 'Began'? Is that what you're trying to say here?) Or if you could spell properly. (It's naïve.) I have to wonder if you communicate as well verbally as you do in your so-stylishly dashed-off comments here.
ReplyDelete(And for anyone who feels the need to say 'Come on; you're making this personal', no I'm not. I'm addressing how Mr. P has commented, not him personally. Were I to reply as to how I actually felt about him...you'd know it. But as I've stated to Cal directly, I don't do that. 'Just the facts, Ma'am. Just the facts.')
But tell me, Mr. P: what makes you think that in four years, you won't be saying the exact same thing about the batch of candidates you and others seem compelled to feel are the answer? How will you respond when, if what I'm suggesting about engagement in the process on the parts of regular citizens hasn't found some traction, and we haven't changed things on our side of the equation, when we're in the exact same situation we are right now? Will your refrain be repeated? 'Vote 'em out! Let's get fresh blood in there after this miserable term!' What will that tell you about your 'solution'? Will you still see me as 'naive' then?
Through all of this, looking at the comments on the Spec article, noting the general profile of general discussion, I'm appalled at the apparent inability of people to actually think.
As a final question, Mr. P: even though you've slammed the very notion of town hall meetings, how do you think you'd function in one? Do you feel that there'd be any point in your participating? Would you feel comfortable contributing, engaging with elected officials and fellow citizens?
Just curious. Bud.
Bob: "Hey, its a publicity stunt. But publicity stunt is probably the only way to overcome 'complicity stunt' that incumbents use to stay in power - so i say good move! Keep going."
ReplyDeleteWhile I can appreciate your sentiments, and where you're going with this, my instincts say that this falls within the category of 'Us vs Them', and I have no time for that. It's not productive, it's regressive, it's unevolved...and frankly, it smack of so much that's wrong with society in general, not just how people are being governed. We've created a 'blame society' in which everyone wants to point fingers then flush...when in fact we're all complicit in just about everything, knowingly or not, actively or not. In fact, just about every 'problem' has been informed by a general sense of apathy on the part of 'us', a willful tendency towards 'How can I get what I want?' rather than what John F Kennedy extolled, 'Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.' Replace 'country' with 'neighbourhood'. With 'community'. With 'ward'. With 'city'.
As for your support regarding my thrust, increased citizen engagement with their councillors, thank you. Have you taken the time to read the five-part series I posted dealing with the full scope of what I'm getting at? (It begins here.) I think you'll find that though it might not cleave closely to what you've been pounding the table about, but I believe you'll agree that it is a powerful approach to empowerment on a basic level...and moreoever, it would produce a stirring ripple-effect throughout so many other aspects of our lives.
Finally, I thank you for your considered comment: a breath of fresh air is always something to be grateful for.
Ah, being loose on the floor is so refreshing eh mystoneycreek? I'd have more to say than that [were I (a writer) possessed of a bigger brain...] I think.
ReplyDelete[Oi-friggin'-vey mystoneycreek], disco your comment BTW. Yadda yadda yadda, Yoda yeah?
mystoneycreek, in your opinion, was this out and about candidate gathering at the new hall [variations on a theme], [the way you see IT]?
How do I envision mystoneycreek twaddling through the wood like some intrepid-little red-ridden hooded-wolf would?
Venting, Hmmm? [Unless I missed IT]... [Wowza] Now that's venting!
I visualize mystoneycreek as more of a sexy Alice in Wonderland than a Dorthy, dirty dancing with an in-vented strawman.
What do you think?
"I visualize mystoneycreek as more of a sexy Alice in Wonderland than a Dorthy, dirty dancing with an in-vented strawman."
ReplyDeleteOh, I'm far more pedestrian than you give me credit for being.
But thanks for all the attention. Duly noted. ('duly' being the operative word.)
Mr. Stoney Creek, your babble is boring and tiresome. What you try to say in 5 sentences could easily be explained in 2. You act like you are some gods gift to writers, but the real case is that you have a mediocre blog and never really accomplished anything with your writing.
ReplyDeleteOnce someone makes a valid point, you sir have to go back and look for small grammatical errors and turn the focus on that. Your generally unhappy about life and the type of character who would find something wrong with anything. You feed off of it, you enjoy it. Your miserable lifestyle makes you this way.
Life is not that bad. Remember when you try to look to smart, it backfires. Case in point. There's a concept I learned a while back in regards to writing. (KISS) Keep it simple stupid.
My SC. You wanna talk facts? Do your homework. Research the 3 ward councilors in Stoney Creek. Heres some quiestiions: any of them been censured? how many times? any of them leaked info to a media? any of them career politicians who , well I'll stop there. Is that what you want to recycle?>
ReplyDeleteI wont say anything about my education. I aint as bright as you I guess.
Elvis P. out
MyStoneyCreek. I read your 5 parts. Well, ok, i skimmed them is all i had time for. Seems earnest but a little theoretical. Who can argue against engagement? Always sounds good as do your suggestions in part3. Town halls and such get tried from time to time. Being an advocate of Athenian democracy, I can hardly argue, indeed we would both probably go much further. But i'd suggest that your thinking needs to address what a councilor actually does, besides voting, ie. going beyond the theory of engaging to the realities/ mechanics of negotiating, horse trading, budget limitations, other levels, etc. While its fine to insist on engagement, not everyone has the time or aptitude or desire. Consider a talented exec with no time vs a sociable but uninterested / uneducated hanger-on, who would gladly spend all day engaging. Have you ever been party to any kind of public engagement? If so, you may have an idea of how endless it can be, how endless squabbling results from opposing interest groups ramping up their engagement, etc. If that approaches 'lobbying', then what you're asking for is the downward migration of lobbying by more and more people, no? And with all this engagement, who needs a councilor? What are we paying one for?
ReplyDeleteWhile i agree with your rejection of us vs them per your 2nd para above, my agreement is on the basis that yes, we got the gummerment we deserve because of the poor choices we made and yes, our non engagement, apathy. But i think you overlook 1) how the media skews folks away from the lesser supported, and 2) how the system can turn an honest individual from initial innocence to being complicit. Your blog asks where is the inventory of secluded honest feedstock for candidacy. My answer is that it is everywhere, but its shelf life once activated is short. Thus term limits or other method of continual drawing in new blood is exactly what the system needs.
I just can´t fake IT mystoneycreek, thanks for sharing the peep!
ReplyDeleteIT has been a hot summer flirting with too cruel, having been a lean season for keen operatives in cool. So I make foreword, faking steps at Club Hamiltonian which are more terpsichorean fleshed than pedestrian fuelled (primarily to keep those search engines well spooled;v)
Cheers to mystoneycreek, our boldest blogger bejeweled.
I believe this is the first time something like this has been done. If 8 strangers can come together for the greater good. Why can't our Council put their differences aside and do what's best for our city?
ReplyDelete